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January 5, 2006
Smoking and group sex
Vila at Montreal Metroblogs made an entry describing the possible hypocrisy of banning smoking behind closed private doors, and not banning group sex behind other doors.
Essentially, the court ruled the other day that since swingers clubs aren't exactly everywhere and what happens does not affect the greater society, they should be allowed to operate as they are. Perhaps the problem is the lack of understanding (or agreement) with the legal terminology. Swingers clubs are private clubs under the law, while bars, clubs and restaurants are not. I don't know what they are (public clubs?), but legally they are a different beast from private clubs.
No, you can't smoke at a swingers club. No, you can't smoke cigarettes at a cigar club. The argument that you should be able to have non-smoking establishments and smoking ones seems to make a LOT more sense in this light. Or maybe smoking hours and non-smoking hours. I would support this except that this has never really happened in Montreal. No one would dare trying to open a bar just for non-smokers, not here. Non-smokers are sick of not getting the good seats (although I think that this has changed recently) or putting up with other people's inconsiderate habits. One negative aspect of this law is that smoker friends will frequently leave to have their cigarettes. This seems a little rude to me after a while, as though they couldn't have fewer breaks, or smoke at the end of the night. Instead they get up every ten minutes (or so it seems, to a non-smoker) and, depending on the setting, disrupt the group. It may not be inconvenient to just the smokers.
It definitely seems strange that group sex is fine in a private place, but smoking cigarettes is not. Or more broadly, how one does not harm the public interest, but the other does. Maybe when group sex becomes as popular as smoking, with the same level of public profile and problems will they be treated the same way.
Posted by JonasParker at January 5, 2006 12:14 PM
Comments
Actually, the suggestion that smoking be confined to private clubs, which would be reserved for paying members and therefore be closed to the general public, is perhaps the most rational contribution to the smoking discussion I have yet encountered. The vast majority of bars and restaurants would be smoke-free, which would serve the 75% of the Quebec population that chooses not to smoke; however, a presumably smaller number of establishments would have the legal right to serve the 25% of Quebecers who are smokers. Non-smokers would never have to set foot in smoking establishments—certainly, no one would hold a gun to their heads—and better, they would avoid being exposed to large groups of smokers who will be permanently clustered around every bar, restaurant, and café door in the province as of June 1st. Trust me, this will happen.
As to your point about no one daring to open a non-smoking bar, I think there is reason to be optimistic. A number of cafés in Mile End, most of which have liquor licences, and at least two bars have gone smoke-free during the last year or so, and neighbourhood residents have naturally gravitated to the ones they prefer. This suggests that the strategy is perfectly viable—it just hasn’t been tried on a larger scale, and I can’t think of a more appropriate city to try it in than Montreal.
Of course, if all else fails, we could always go the route of swinging smoking clubs, but that’s another can of worms entirely! ;-)
Whatever the outcome, thanks for an interesting, and refreshingly reasonable, discussion.
Posted by: Vila H. at January 5, 2006 5:25 PM
If I understand well the documentation provided by the ministère de la santé et des services sociaux,
http://msssa4.msss.gouv.qc.ca/santpub/loitabac.nsf/22f2ea9b71e5846d85256d0a00761591/901d86091bdca49a852570cb005bdc46?OpenDocument
it will still be possible to smoke in cigare clubs already existing as of may 2005.
It is also still possible to create a smoking area, if it completely sealed of and is reserved only for smoking (with some exceptions, such as in kindergardens).
These is also a big difference between a swinger club where the intended activity is group sex and bars where the first function is meeting people, partying, etc.
Consider also that seeing people have sex does not lead to any disease, while second hand smoke does.
Posted by: Maxime at January 5, 2006 7:11 PM
I was recently on Vancouver Island and at the Vancouver airport and they have those "totally sealed" smoking rooms the previous comment mentions. I thought it was funny they'd have those in clean-air BC and not here (no luck finding a smoking room in the YUL airport).
Jonas, perhaps it would help you understand your smoking friends annoying 10-minute fixes more if you realized how addictive commercial tobacco products are. It's a nasty habit, but it is also a serious addiction, both physical and pychological. Says an almost ex-smoker.
Posted by: Isabel at January 8, 2006 9:54 PM
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